{
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      "parent_author": "farmerhamish",
      "parent_permlink": "bella",
      "author": "steemitboard",
      "permlink": "steemitboard-notify-farmerhamish-20200308t225118000z",
      "title": "",
      "body": "Congratulations @farmerhamish! You received a personal award!\n\n<table><tr><td>https://steemitimages.com/70x70/http://steemitboard.com/@farmerhamish/birthday3.png</td><td>Happy Steem Birthday! - You are on the Steem blockchain for 3 years!</td></tr></table>\n\n<sub>_You can view [your badges on your Steem Board](https://steemitboard.com/@farmerhamish) and compare to others on the [Steem Ranking](https://steemitboard.com/ranking/index.php?name=farmerhamish)_</sub>\n\n\n**Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:**\n<table><tr><td><a href=\"https://steemit.com/steemitboard/@steemitboard/downvote-challenge-add-up-to-3-funny-badges-to-your-board\"><img src=\"https://steemitimages.com/64x128/https://steemitimages.com/0x0/![](https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmUuJkZdnSpHVWssxF82ntymqXg4Pvk6K6bYvckUYVRsnj/image.png)\"></a></td><td><a href=\"https://steemit.com/steemitboard/@steemitboard/downvote-challenge-add-up-to-3-funny-badges-to-your-board\">Downvote challenge - Add up to 3 funny badges to your board</a></td></tr><tr><td><a href=\"https://steemit.com/steemitboard/@steemitboard/use-your-witness-votes-and-get-the-community-badge\"><img src=\"https://steemitimages.com/64x128/https://cdn.steemitimages.com/DQmTugCUsoXX762vg1CuHRrpnPbfnjPogp8iCGv7F2kSVuj/image.png\"></a></td><td><a href=\"https://steemit.com/steemitboard/@steemitboard/use-your-witness-votes-and-get-the-community-badge\">Use your witness votes and get the Community Badge</a></td></tr></table>\n\n###### [Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness](https://v2.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=steemitboard&approve=1) to get one more award and increased upvotes!",
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      "body": "Congratulations @farmerhamish! You received a personal award!\n\n<table><tr><td>https://steemitimages.com/70x70/http://steemitboard.com/@farmerhamish/birthday2.png</td><td>Happy Birthday! - You are on the Steem blockchain for 2 years!</td></tr></table>\n\n<sub>_[Click here to view your Board](https://steemitboard.com/@farmerhamish)_</sub>\n\n\n###### [Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness](https://v2.steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=steemitboard&approve=1) and get one more award and increased upvotes!",
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      "body": "No worries, I've been looking into this ever since you posted.  You know, a part of me is/has always been hoping for Universal salvation, part of me can't accept it.  \n\nI found some points brought up by a pastor named Peter Hiett to be pretty interesting, and I'm really rolling them around in my noggin.  It's a new thought for me, but he brings up the point that God is eternal, and God is light.  In the resurrection/restoration of all things, it's possible we will all live in the Eternal now with God, as in outside time.  If that's the case, then all the references to Eternal punishment, and things lasting forever could mean that they last until the closing of the current timeline.  \n\nI'm still not sure what to make of the second death, in the Universalist paradigm.  In a sense, I can see the problem with God killing all the sinners, throwing them into the lake of fire in Rev 21:8, right after He said there will be no more death, pain, etc.  How's that supposed to work out if you know and love someone who was a liar, or unbeliever, and God kills them in front of you?  At  the same time, doesn't that suggest salvation for the principalities and powers, Satan, etc.?\n\nAnyway, you've definitely got me thinking, and studying the Word, so thanks for that!",
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      "body": "hello and sorry for taking so long to get back to you... had a RAM failure, just plugged the new ones in.\n\nI'll try to answer you later today or tomorrow. I have a lot of work to catch up on.\n\ncheers\n\nBob",
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      "permlink": "bella",
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      "body": "Cats. Pets. Animals in general… have been part of my life since my early childhood. My family had a small farm for a few years in my youth. We raised cows, chickens, ducks, geese, rabbits and horses. We also had dogs and when I was about 6 years old, I was given my first cat. Sassy was aptly named. As an 8 or 10 week old kitten she walked up to our Lab who was sleeping in front of a roaring fire. She placed herself between his fore legs and chest, kind of spun into positions as cats often do, and went to sleep. This caused the Lab great concern as he moved his head to look at what hairy object had made itself at home between him and the fire – but laying right up against him! If you have never seen a dog look concerned – or perhaps a look of consternation – you haven’t really known a dog. He alternately looked at the cat and then at us as if to say, “what do I do now?” But he didn’t move from that spot, almost afraid of what this little ball of fur would do.\n\nSassy had a sister – also aptly named – Cuddles. She wanted nothing more than a warm lap to sleep on and to be petted and scratched. She would lay there cuddling and purring as long as you would allow, and showed no grudge if you had to move her. She was simply the sweetest cat alive.\n\nMy mother probably did the most to instill a love of cats in me. She loved them. We had a number of them over the years. Sassy and Cuddles lived to ripe old age of 18 and 19, but in the interim we had Peanuts, Oscar and Caesar as well as visits from strays Lady and Sam (who deposited Peanuts and Oscar with us). Lady was perhaps the smallest cat I have ever seen. Being an abandoned cat has definite draw-backs in the food department. She was most likely severely malnourished as a kitten causing her slight stature. In the higher elevations of western New York food must have been hard to come by for cats. Sam was full grown but looked as if he were 100 years old. Mangy hair and cut ears – he looked like a prize fighter that had a dozen too many fights. Yet he was friendly and my mother (and us kids) took pity on him. We often wondered about how he lost the front end of his meow. His mouth would open and form the “me” part but all we heard was …oowww. One day he just didn’t show up. I like to think he moved on, but I had a feeling it was the cat equivalent of Inlé-rah from Watership Down. Likewise Lady moved on, leaving her precious offspring in our care. \n\nYears later after my marriage my mother was living with us due to failing health. By this time all the cats of my youth had been called home and we were without a pet. I told myself we were too busy for pets but in reality the loss of each pet along the way was extremely difficult. \n\nThen one day my wife came home from work with a kitten she had found in an armadillo hole. She had heard his faint meow and tracked it to the source. She bravely reached into the hole and grabbed the little fellow who wound up being our beautiful Indy; a Maine-coon mix with all the markings but not the size. When I came home from work the look in my wife’s eyes told me we were keeping him. \n\nThis bit of providence ended up being a wonderful blessing for my mother who was suffering terribly from numerous heath issues. Indy was a source of great joy for her. He greeted her every morning with a meow and spent a number of hours in her room. He was always fascinated when she filed her nails and would steal the emery board right from her hand if she let her guard down. Of course, like all cats, he had an obsession with small objects and we would continually find her belongings under the couch or kitchen table, basically anywhere something small would get caught up when a cat was batting it around. My mom loved Indy and I’m glad he came into our lives when he did because my mom passed away a little over a year later. He gave her untold joys in her time of suffering and I believe he was sent by God to us for just that reason.\n\nThe grief of her passing was mitigated by the picture in my mind of her being in heaven with all those cats that had gone before her. Some may argue with me about cats in heaven but I believe heaven is beyond anything we could think of or imagine – not the opposite of it. And I believe my mother would be surrounded by cats as well as her family in heaven. I picture her with Cuddles on her lap, Sassy and Peanuts on the couch next to her, Oscar and Caesar chasing some little thing around her. And Sam, old beat up Sam is there too, with a thick coat of shiny grey hair and his full meow. Lying next to him is Lady, that tiny sweetheart who enriched our lives when she gave us charge of Oscar and Peanuts.\n\nAll things are new. Mom is in perfect health as are the family members who preceded her there. Cuddles has no brain lesions and Caesar’s abscessed tooth is cured. Everyone is content and perfect and only awaiting our arrival to be with them in glory. \nSince then we have added other cats to our lives – or I should say Providence has added them. But one more has gone to be with my mother. \n\nShortly after buying our present home – while we were renovating it – Clarisse showed up. She kept her distance but watched my work intently. My neighbors thought she had been abandoned by the previous owners but we can’t be sure. I would leave her scraps of food from time to time and eventually she repaid us by showing up with two kittens. We dubbed the white one Kimba and the black one Andre as a bit of a joke because he was so tiny – I had Andre the Giant in mind. At about eight weeks old they were very feral but after my wife trapped them in a screened in porch we were able to tame them (with time and snacks). But they continued to be very skittish about any odd or loud noises. One day after a particularly strong thunderstorm Kimba was meowing – more bellowing – and we knew something was wrong. We searched high and low for Andre, eventually finding he had wedged himself in behind a bed – suffocating himself. We were devastated and so was Kimba who walked around crying for his brother. It was terrible. Another cat for my mother. While the thought of my mother surrounded with all her cats was a comfort to me, the thought of sending ours to her was a little less comforting. \n\nAbout a week went by and Kimba seemed completely inconsolable. I never thought I would see a cat that seemed depressed but Kimba was that cat. We decided to try and find him a new “brother” when we heard of a shelter that was overstocked in the cat department. One cat… good luck with that.\n\nWhile my wife searched all the likely boy candidates I observed a little girl kitten hiding in the back of her cage with her body pressed down as low as she could against the floor. Was she waiting for just the right person – hiding herself from the little monsters that pull tails and hold cats when they don’t want to be held. I figured no one had given her a second look and asked the attendant if I could see her just to give her a little attention. She clawed and the cage floor as the attendant reached in and then handed her to me. To my surprise – and the attendant’s – she reached for my shoulder, curled herself around my neck – and started to purr. She was the sweetest kitten I believe I had ever seen and she took to me like I was her long lost father. How could I ever put her down? Just then my wife turned to show me the cat she had picked out and was amazed to see this cat clinging for dear life to me. She smiled and said, “I guess we’re going home with two kittens”.\n\nWe didn’t know it at the time, but we would end up in a fight for her life.\n\nToo be continued…",
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      "body": "Well, I don't have the Greek to follow all you've said here, so it's going to take me a while to search it all out.  Actually, all the Greek I have is from memorizing the alphabet in college:)\n\nI do have some initial thoughts  on some of this though.  First, I think you are forcing some interpretations on a few things.  Like the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah, lake of fire, etc. being eternal.  It is one way to look at it to say it's eternal because it lasts forever, but you could look at it as eternal as in final.  There's no coming back from it, ever.  \n\nIn that sense, the lake of fire doesn't have to punish eternally because the punishment itself is eternal.  The lake of fire existing eternally doesn't need to imply that those cast into it do.\n\nAlso, I think it's possible to look at some of the extreme statements of inclusion as hyperbole instead of literal.  Like, wipe every tear.  If you stretched that to its literal extreme that means every tear ever cried by anyone ever.  It could just mean every tear for those left.  Similarly with mankind, I think.  I've got to do some digging on that one.  \n\nHowever the bible does say some things will be everlasting or eternal that clearly won't be.  Israel's possession of the promised land is said to be everlasting, but later it is tied to obedience.  God judges them and removes them.  The Aronic priesthood is said to be everlasting, but My reading of Hebrews seems to imply the old priesthood is done away with.  Same with the Day of Atonement; it's said to be an everlasting statute, or law.  \n\nAs for the flood, it seems like a picture of the new creation.  God destroyed the Earth, then renewed it.  He didn't bring back all the people destroyed, though.  He started over with Noah and his family.  \n\nEphesians 2:8 - This one causes a whole lot of problems if you try to think through all the implications.  Some do form a theology of a capricious God who just picks some people to burn in hell forever.  I don't think that works, though, if you're looking at Jesus as the perfect representation of God's character.  I like Wesley's idea of Prevenient Grace, where God gives everyone the grace to be able to believe.   I don't really think He's going to toss everyone out who couldn't come to faith because they didn't ever hear the Gospel, or had some other physiological or emotional barrier to it.  I tend to think at the resurrection there will be some sort of purification for those people.  \n\nI have some real problems with the idea that people who actively reject God and instead turn to evil not facing justice.  I don't think it's being capricious to think Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. will face Justice.  I have a hard time reconciling how people whose lives have been destroyed by evil people will live in the new creation holding hands with the guy who raped and tortured them and never repented.   \n\nI do appreciate your insight, and I'm going to study it further.  Whatever I think, I want it to be in line with what the bible teaches, and with what the Holy Ghost leads me to.",
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      "body": "I agree Robin Parry does not sight scriptures much in his yourtube videos, I do however agree with most of his teaching. I believe he is still worth listening to though… but that’s me personally.\n\nOne roadblock to understanding punishment in the Bible is that for 2 millennia the Christian church has mostly gotten it wrong and influenced the translations of the Bible to keep the truth hidden (though not always on purpose). There certainly are many references to punishment in the Bible but punishment does not have to be eternal – or, better said, everlasting. Sodom and Gomorrah and the great flood were both punishments but both also only were for a period of time and then ended. The eternal comes in because it is punishment from an eternal God. It also doesn’t help that Judaism had veered so far off course before the advent of the Church and the Church father’s mistakenly looked to Jewish scholars (who had rejected Christ) for Old Testament scriptures. An easy mistake to make, but the consequences have been severe. The Tanakh is useful to a certain extent but (seemingly to me) edited out references to Messiah. I always look to the Septuagint and the Targums for clarification on OT passages.\n\nThe problem with the conditionalist perspective – in its many forms – is that it views our relationship with God as contractual – requiring fulfillment of something on our part to gain fulfillment on God’s part. Even so called Sola Fide (faith alone) churches make our faith the contingent upon which God bestows everlasting life. Yet Ephesians 2:8 clearly states the faith by which we are saved is a gift from God. Some go on from there to frame a capricious God who gifts some with salvation while allowing other’s to burn for eternity based on some foreknowledge of their rejection of His free gift – yet this too looks to merit (demerit) on the part of the one who God “knew would refuse.” This is a real rabbit hole. \nIf we are saved by grace through faith that is a gift – it is not contractual or conditional. A gift requires no repayment nor prepayment. \n\nAs to the second death:\n\nIn Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.\n\nHe who overcomes is a reference to believers (1 John 5:4) so this says that believers do not experience the second death\n\nRevelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.\n\nAgain, he who has part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. The first resurrection was Jesus Christ; those who have a part in Him – believers (Romans 12:5) – again are not affected by the second death. \n\nRevelation 20:14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.\n\nDeath is not in Christ – not part of creation, neither is Hades, so that which is not part of the original creation is what suffers the second death. Notice the Hades is cast into the lake of fire… so Hades (hell of Greek mythology – and Hellenistic Judaism) is burned up. Many churches teach Hades and the lake of fire as the same thing… \n\nRevelation 21:8 \"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.\"\n\nAll the sins cataloged here are not part of the original creation, this is not about particular person. In verse 3 “the dwelling of God is with men,: not some men, not those who believed or deserved it… Anthropon in the genitive plural, meaning “mankind” or “humanity” with no limitation indicated by any modifier such as “all mankind who believed”. In verse 4 it further states “He will wipe away ever tear” again with no modifier. In verse 5 He who sits on the throne said, \"Behold, I am making all things new.\" Not some things, or most things. \n\nBack to verse 4 where it states “There will be no more death.” If people are to be cast into the eternal lake of fire which is the second death, then death doesn’t end.\n\nThen there’s Revelation 21:7 “He who overcomes shall inherit these things.” Followed by the list of sins in verse 8 which many churches teach as people who commit those sins. Notice this list in not exhaustive, neither does it include the sin of unbelief. This is must be representative of sin in general otherwise some sins are not bad enough to cause eternal damnation, yet Romans 6:23 say the wages of sin is death, not just a handful of really bad ones, but all sin. \n\nIn fact, in Revelation 21:8 it is the sins, or sin itself, which is cast into the lake of fire with death and Hades. Further, the interpretation that verse 8 identifies certain types of people that will burn in hell is both an outgrowth of and sustaining of the judgmentalism you see in the church. When taught elitism many will tend to be elitists. We all sin to varying degrees, but how quickly we forget to “judge not lest ye be judged in like manner?” Many people are comforted by superiority complexes, more so when they don’t deserve it. And who deserves a superiority complex least than believers who were gifted salvation; the ultimate gift given to those who could never match up? That is why church people make the worst hypocrites – they have the farthest to travel.\n\nAs to the verse you quoted on eternal destruction, I’ll try to cover those as best I can at this late hour, possibly giving clarity to the other passages as well:\n\nPsalm 37:38 But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.\n\nThe posterity of the wicked will be cut off does not mean the wicked will be cut off. Is essence, they will be saved as through fire – their works will be burned up because they were not wrought in the Spirit. \n\n\n2 Peter 3:3-7 3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, \"Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.\" 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.\n\nComparing the destruction in verse 7 to the flood in verse 6, the flood was not eternal. The world was destroyed is poetic hyperbole. The flood creased, receded and then the earth was renewed. If the Word interprets destruction by comparison to the flood we can’t then call it eternal or permanent.\n\nIn 2Peter 2:1-12 – without pasting it in here to save space…\n\nVerse 4 the angels that sinned and were cast into hell. First, this is Tartarus – a holding place or dungeon and not the same as Hades of Greek and OT mythology. Further, they are held there until the judgment, not as judgment.\n\nVerses 5-6 as discussed above – those punishments were not eternal or everlasting.\n\nVerses 7-9 unrighteous are kept under judgment for the day of punishment – a solid reason to be saved (righteous) before death. But also not indicative of everlasting punishment. \n\nVerse 10-12 destruction/destroyed – Destruction is phthora in the dative noun for “decay” or “corruption” and the related Greek word for destroyed is phtharesontai in the passive, literally, their corruption will be destroyed. This is a case of translation for the purpose of subjugation (or cowardice). Especially the KJV and NIV in its use of “brute beasts” when it merely says wild animals. \n\n-\tLike wild animals who are caught and killed, likewise these men’s corruption will be destroyed.\n-\t\nNot the same thundering oppressive language meant to scare sinners into repentance and morality – and ends up fomenting the elitism of looking at unbelievers are brute beast – fools who know not God. Anyway, certainly no indication of everlasting damnation and actually it point to glorification. \n\nIt’s getting late so I’ll cut it off here… if I get time I will continue tomorrow, and will be happy to answer other questions or exegete more passages as time permit. \n\nMany people, including myself for many years had fallen into a type of normalcy bias that said our God was a God of retributive justice and easily find that retribution in many passages. In fact His justice is transformative as can be shown by a clearer translation of 2 Pet 2:12. When your paradigm shifts on that point it will be a great weight lifted… but I’ll get more into that later. I enjoy this type of communication and it is exactly the fellowship I spoke of. Those same judgmental Christians who call you names for reading CS Lewis are the ones who cause divisions in the church and give excuse to those who reject Christ. That work will be burned up in the end, and they will be embarrassed for a moment but glorified as well. I feel pity for them in missing living the kingdom now.\n\nPeace and good night. \n\nBob\n\nPS pardon any typos and grammar fails…",
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      "body": "Well, I had a chance to catch one of Robin Perry's videos and he does raise some interesting points.  He didn't really appeal to scripture all that much though, just mostly to a sense that the damnation idea didn't really fit the story of redemption.  I think he has a point, but in the end I felt like he didn't do enough to overcome some of the problems I have with the idea of Universalism.  \n\nFirst, the bible does indeed indicate a destructive end to the wicked.  Over and over in the old testament.  Jesus Himself uses Sodom and Gomorrah and the Flood as examples of God's judgement.  If we all die anyway, what's the point of singling out the end of the wicked?  I mean, I know we all die, but from a conditionalist perspective those passages would refer to the second death.  While we're on the subject, under a universalist perspective what is the second death?\n\nAlso, I know Revelation is highly debated regarding its interpretation, but what about the lake of fire, and the destruction of the devil, false prophet, etc in Rev 20, Dan 7.  In Col 1:20, and Acts 3 which you cited above it says all things will be reconciled, Colossians specifically says \"whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.\"  That seems to muddy the waters for me a little.  Which is it, are the Devil and the fallen Son of God reconciled or not?  Picking one side or another doesn't reconcile what seems to be an obvious tension, for me at least.  \n\nIt's passages like the following that make me think that at least some people are going to suffer eternal destruction.\n\n> Psalm 37:38, 2 Peter 3:3-7, 2 peter 2:1-12, 2 Thes 1:6-9  There are more, but you get the point.\n\nAnyway, I'm not arguing here, so don't think I'm attacking you.  Actually, I really have some hard feelings for having been taught the whole Eternal Conscious Torment doctrine for most of my life, so I'm pretty open to going wherever the evidence leads.  Not sure I'll be able to get to the book you recommended any time soon, though.  My \"to Read\" list gets bigger way faster than I can knock it down.\n\n>Further, I don't believe it's possible to not-believe in Christ and then also believe that He will save us in the end...\n\nYou got me there.  Didn't consider it from that angle before.\n\n>Believing now joins us to a community of believers that is a relationship like no other.\n\nOn this one, though, I have to disagree.  From my personal experience with so called Christians, most are extremely judgemental, unforgiving, and legalistic.  People in the churches I have attended treat each other much worse than the people I have met in the dregs.  Probably because they have no fear of getting their rear ends kicked...  I got called a heretic earlier today on this platform for sticking up for C.S. Lewis!  I'm surprised the Heretic Hunters haven't found this post to \"expose\" you yet.\n\nThanks for the dialog, Hamish.",
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      "body": "well.. home a little late... but I want to address one thing you asked. Why believe at all?\n\nAs I was working I recalled Robin Parry's answer that question and since I had recommended him to you I found myself hoping you wouldn't stumble onto that video (or that if so, it didn't put you off). I found his answer to be weak... though I enjoy much of his work. \n\nI believe it is an extremely important question - in the light of what I have seen from many universalists since my conversion. Many seem to have taken a completely non-critical view of sin and the need for a Spiritual Life - at least the ones I have come in contact with. That seems the cowards way out since the Bible is filled with admonitions against various sins as well as growing in grace, witnessing, following our calling, etc.\n\nBuilding (hopefully) on what I wrote this morning. Believing now joins us to a community of believers that is a relationship like no other. It also increases our light in the age to come. To live a life after the flesh now will also take a toll that is natural to our bodies. Without God as our guide and confessor we accumulate failures that no amount of ignoring or alcohol will relieve. God has provided a means to overcome those failures in His Son - a relief not available to the unbeliever until death. The universalist is uniquely positioned to recover (as are faith-alone Hell-ists) in that we have an assurance of salvation so that no failure has the sting of eternal damnation. No reason to go though life unsure of eternity.\n\nFurther, I don't believe it's possible to not-believe in Christ and then also believe that He will save us in the end...\n\nbelieve now, grow in grace, spread the true gospel, live as a witness of and for the glory of Christ - this is the life well lived. no bucket list required.\n\nI hope this helps.",
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      "body": "I have to head to work, so I can only give short answers now, but I'll get back to you later. In the mean time I recommend Robin Parry on youtube. \n\nAlso, Roman's is one of the most abused book in the Bible. Paul is actually doing a dialectic between his own teaching and the false teaching of a Jewish-Christian teacher who is trying to push a salvation-by-works gospel. I recommend \"The Deliverance of God: An Apocalyptic Rereading of Justification in Paul\" - Douglas Campbell to understand that. I plan on writing about it in the future but am not ready for that yet. I can also recommend Tetelestia.org study on Romans. \n\nas to John 3:16, remember that at the end - the restoration - every knee will bow and every tongue confess - the judgment of God is not retributive as many would have us believe, His judgment is transformative. \n\nrepenting now allows one to live the life-to-come now - the kingdom of God is righteous, joy and peace now. To live for the moment, directed by desire, is to be a slave to sin. True peace - that is inner peace - is lived only in union with Christ. Not a life free from adversity, but a life lived with a forward look to eternity.\n\nFurther, God's judgment is still judgment, God is called a burning fire (Heb 12:29) and while that fire, as with the burning bush of Moses, does not consume, it is still fire - and some will be saved as though through fire (1 Cor 3:15), meaning loss of all his work (accumulation). Knowing the potential of loss, I would rather work for that which will remain. \nI do not believe the biblical evidence is vague. When studied out, it become very clear - and the vagueness you see is part of the oligarch's program. God is not far off or absent and Christ sent the Holy Spirit expressly to that we may come to understand.\n\nI hope I didn't confuse the issue... but let me know and I'll get back to this later.\n\npeace to you also!",
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